Q&A: Courtney Frerichs Opens Up About Her Exit from Bowerman TC & New Start Under Alistair & Amy Cragg

From 2016-2021, few American athletes have been extra constant than Courtney Frerichs. The Missouri native and College of Missouri-Kansas Metropolis alum completed eleventh, 2nd, Sixth, and 2nd in 4 World Championship/Olympic finals throughout that span and twice set the American file within the girls’s steeplechase: 9:00.85 in Monaco in 2018, then 8:57.77 in Eugene in 2021 — the primary American girl ever beneath 9:00.

Frerichs completed out the 2021 season — one which additionally included an Olympic silver medal — by ending third within the Diamond League steeple ultimate. Within the two years since, operating has largely been a wrestle. In 2022, Frerichs handled low iron and an ankle harm however nonetheless managed to muscle out a Sixth-place end at Worlds in Eugene. Frerichs underwent ankle surgical procedure in December 2022 to right the difficulty however rushed again as a way to attempt to compete on the 2023 Worlds and wound up injuring the identical ankle and fibula, seemingly throughout a fall through the prelims on the USATF Championships the place she was compelled to withdraw from the ultimate. For the primary time since 2015, Frerichs missed qualifying for Worlds. Within the midst of all that, Frerichs’ crew, the Bowerman Monitor Membership, was within the midst of a transfer from Portland, Ore., to Eugene.

For quite a few causes, which Frerichs particulars under, she introduced on January 1 that she has left Bowerman TC and will likely be coached shifting ahead by Alistair and Amy Cragg — the latter a former teammate of Frerichs at Bowerman. Frerichs’ husband, Griffin Humphreys, may also be becoming a member of the Craggs’ Puma Elite crew as an assistant coach. Frerichs was the fourth high-profile athlete to depart Bowerman within the final three months, following Grant Fisher, Cooper Teare, and Elise Cranny, although as Frerichs factors out under, she had begun considering of leaving earlier than any of these departures.

In a wide-ranging interview, the 30-year-old Frerichs spoke to LetsRun from her present coaching camp in Albuquerque about her choice to depart BTC, why she selected to work with the Craggs and Pascal Dobert, the state of the ladies’s steeple, and why she feels the very best about her operating since 2021 as she makes an attempt to make a 3rd Olympic crew.

I noticed you simply arrived in Albuquerque for coaching camp. How lengthy are you there for? Are you solo or do you’ve any coaching companions on the market?

I’m most likely going to be right here till mid-February, if I needed to guess. We don’t have an actual date but, it form of is dependent upon if I resolve on some racing. A couple of of the Puma athletes are right here as properly – Fiona [O’Keeffe], Taylor [Werner], and Rose Harvey are right here, so I’m doing a variety of coaching with them.

Are Amy and Alistair on the market with you guys as properly?

Alistair has been coming forwards and backwards. He’ll fly in for a number of the exercises, splitting time since there’s nonetheless a crew in Chapel Hill, some that have been wanting to remain at sea stage.

What concerning the subsequent few months from a racing perspective? Will you run any indoor races or cross nation races?

We’re nonetheless deciding 100% what I’m going to do. I’ve been actually hesitant to decide to any racing. Final yr was simply so tough and I felt like coming into this fall, I wanted to only concentrate on constructing a basis with out feeling any stress of preparing for a race indoors. However issues have really gone method higher than anticipated. So Alistair is pushing me to have that dialogue of racing.

I’m going to run most likely an indoor race or two after which possibly assist out with The TEN, with some pacing. I at all times get pleasure from pacing and I believe that’s a great health check. And if it really works out, it might be a possibility to assist a variety of girls attempt to hit that [Olympic] normal, together with possibly former teammates or folks I’d be enthusiastic about serving to out.

Leaving Bowerman

Why did you make the choice to depart Bowerman?

There wasn’t one actual purpose. It was a wide range of issues. I wasn’t significantly pro-move to Eugene however I wished to present it a try to actually tried to go down with an open mindset. Granted final yr had a variety of different components when it comes to why it went so poorly. I wouldn’t say it was simply the transfer to Eugene. However I believe for Griffin and I each, it simply didn’t really feel proper. 

We don’t need issues simply to all be about my operating. We wished him to have the ability to pursue his objectives. Within the fall, we did extra distance. He stayed in Portland and continued to teach at Portland State. However I used to be simply actually struggling, so he wished to come back all the way down to be with me. And for him to work towards being in a training function, Eugene was actually restricted with choices. And so it actually grew to become obvious that every part was about my operating down there, and that wasn’t actually nice for us.

Oregon was by no means the simplest place for myself, living-wise. I’d at all times struggled with the climate, however we had made Portland dwelling. We bought a home and located a neighborhood of individuals, and dropping all of that with the transfer was actually difficult. It was actually exhausting to really feel like recreating that setup that we had in Portland for Griffin and I used to be doable in a state of affairs the place we didn’t understand how lengthy we have been going to be [in Eugene]. So it simply felt actually non permanent. That grew to become actually difficult.

After which to be fully trustworthy, from my perspective, Jerry has made a variety of adjustments to the coaching within the final two years post-Olympics. And I simply actually hadn’t seen the outcomes come from that. I had a extremely robust need to get again to what I do know works very well for me. 

Some athletes actually just like the adjustments, and I do know he made much more large adjustments this yr. I don’t know all the small print of it. I used to be at some extent the place I wished to have extra say in what I used to be doing in coaching and in my schedule usually. I wish to be at altitude extra. Little issues like that.

Jerry has at all times operated in additional of a unit kind method – everybody does extra of the identical factor, very related schedules. I don’t suppose it’s a nasty factor. It simply wasn’t proper for me anymore as I’ve gotten to be an older athlete.

I’ll say too, Jerry and Shalane have accomplished an exceptional job with the stability of the 2 (teaching the College of Oregon and Bowerman). The best way Jerry has been in a position to deal with it has been spectacular. However my school coach (the late James Butler) was most likely the one who I revered probably the most when it got here to my operating. And he was actually, actually large on me going to an atmosphere the place the skilled athletes have been going to be the principle focus. So it’s actually exhausting for me to make that shift in mindset after we moved all the way down to Eugene and Jerry started teaching school athletes as properly. 

The preliminary choice for Jerry to relocate the crew – how do you are feeling like that was dealt with when it comes to communication from Jerry?

If I used to be going to be essential about something, it could most likely be that state of affairs. I don’t really feel like that was significantly dealt with properly. The timing was actually poor. I do want we might have been extra concerned within the dialog, however I additionally perceive that he has objectives and has each proper to make selections for his personal profession as properly. So simply because I’m not blissful about that call imply doesn’t imply he shouldn’t do it.

However the timing undoubtedly might have been higher. It wasn’t tremendous ultimate. I came upon about it the night time earlier than my actually final large session earlier than the [2022] World Championships. So it was a bit distracting. I really feel like there was a variety of compartmentalization that occurred for a very long time. It was form of, okay, properly I assume there’s nothing we will do about this proper now, placing it on the again burner, we have to focus. 

However I additionally perceive that it appears like issues moved actually shortly when it comes to him discovering out about it and the choice making course of. So a few of it was most likely out of his management when it comes to how briskly it occurred.

You talked about Jerry modified the coaching post-Olympics. Are you able to be extra particular about that? How did he change it and why do you suppose it wasn’t working for you as properly?

I discovered that significantly within the winter months and in spring, he actually modified the frequency of depth of exercises. My first few years, we have been on a extra conventional seven-day cycle, the traditional Tuesday-Friday [workouts], Sunday long term. There could be small adjustments right here and there, however for probably the most half we spent a variety of time with that method. [In recent years], we moved into some totally different coaching cycles that concerned possibly fewer relaxation days between exercises. 

I actually, actually tried to purchase into it that first altitude camp that we did that – that will have been the winter of 2022, instantly post-Olympics. It paid off for slightly bit. I opened the season with a 5k PR and I shortly fizzled out.

And I had quite a bit occurring in my private life with the passing of Coach Butler [in December 2021] in addition to some well being points that popped up. I acknowledge that it very properly might be extra coming from that space. However typically it’s exhausting to not suppose it’s not simply coincidence that the adjustments and people issues lined up.

In order that was a coaching schedule that he continued to maintain coming again to over the following yr and a half and I simply discovered that I used to be by no means discovering any consistency. I might begin to get again on my toes after which I might hit a wall once more or then I acquired injured. Coming into this yr, on condition that I had principally a yr and a half of a number of the most inconsistent coaching of my complete profession, I had a extremely robust need to dive into, okay, what are the years that we all know went very well? What was the mindset, what was the method? And it undoubtedly differed from what he’s doing proper now when it comes to the frequency of depth.

Clearly you’re not the one athlete who has left the crew the final couple months. Did the exits of any of the others – Grant Fisher or Elise Cranny – have any impression in your choice to depart? Did you discuss to any of them about that earlier than you made your individual choice?

I wouldn’t say that I left as a result of they left. I most likely began speaking about doubtlessly leaving brazenly sooner than they did. However I used to be very trustworthy with them. That core group of us that had been there for just a few years, or a number of years in my case, these of us that significantly knew what BTC was earlier than the transfer to Eugene, I wished to be fairly open with and trustworthy with as a result of I didn’t wish to catch anybody off-guard. If there was any person else that was solely staying due to XYZ or any person being there, we didn’t need them to out of the blue really feel like, what have been they doing? Elise and I had had a variety of conversations about it and there have been similarities when it comes to what we have been feeling when it comes to the adjustments. I wouldn’t say their departures had an impression as a result of I actually tried to take a step again and resolve what’s finest for me proper now. And I actually inspired my teammates to try this as properly, simply take a step again, what are you needing?

As a result of as a lot as BTC does a extremely, actually good job of getting a really team-oriented method and actually being there for each other, monitor & discipline is a really particular person sport and it’s your personal particular person profession, and also you’re going to wish various things. And my state of affairs was going to be totally different than, in truth, anybody else on the ladies’s crew when it comes to I’m married and sure issues like that.

You talked about you thought Jerry did pretty much as good a job as he might balancing the professionals [with the collegiate athletes]. And I do know Shalane Flanagan has been an necessary useful resource for Bowerman the previous couple of years. Is she extra working with the Oregon girls now? What’s her involvement with Bowerman and did that have an effect on you in any respect?

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Final yr simply with a brand new job, she had quite a bit on her plate so her focus was extra on the ladies of Oregon and he or she was actually enthusiastic about that chance, as she must be. It was an enormous job for her to get. So she was not round as a lot as a result of she was not coming to camps and issues like that. Her plate was actually full. 

And that was exhausting for me, simply given the connection I’ve along with her. It’s no secret that communication has by no means been Jerry’s robust swimsuit however we’ve at all times been in a position to get issues accomplished with having all the workers. There’s a variety of totally different roles. And I believe as a result of her plate was full, after which for myself, Pascal [Dobert — former BTC strength and steeple coach] stepping away from Bowerman really had a extremely vital impression. He was any person that basically stuffed that communication function for me and was in a position to talk issues again to Jerry mixed with Shalane.

After which additionally the place else within the US, not to mention the world, are you going to have a coach who has competed in your occasion at that stage and understands steeplechase? So that basically, actually impacted issues for me.

When it got here to the assets obtainable to you in Eugene and the usage of services, did it really feel such as you have been second fiddle to the Oregon crew? Did you ever have any points with that, or was that every one cool?

No. They did a extremely good job of permitting us [in]. We have been allowed to make use of something and every part and Jerry did a great job of separating days. When it was our exercise day, it was Bowerman’s exercise day and the Oregon athletes usually weren’t understanding that day. Full entry to the monitor, I used to be ready to make use of the underwater treadmill and numerous assets of their athletic coaching room, even. I’ll say that that was an enchancment, a few of these assets, and Hayward is clearly an exceptional facility.

Once you introduced that you just have been shifting on, you probably did level out that you just had a variety of nice recollections, nice teammates via your seven years with Bowerman. Once you joined in 2016, did you suppose you’d have the ability to get to the extent you achieved – two silver medals, an 8:57 American file?

I might say they have been most likely at all times objectives however actually I don’t suppose I might have ever completed all of that. Because of Jerry and all of the unbelievable girls I used to be in a position to practice with, I undoubtedly reached a stage within the sport I don’t suppose I ever imagined I might have gone to. It actually  was a particular group that I acquired to be part of, and I believe that’s a part of why it was so exhausting to make this choice.

I used to be very trustworthy with Jerry on this entire course of. I sat down with him in August earlier than the Budapest World Championships and instructed him that I used to be going to be different choices, that I wasn’t certain I used to be coming again. As a result of I felt I wanted to have open communication with him and I didn’t wish to catch him off-guard. I wished to see if there was a method we might work one thing out as a result of I do really feel that him and I did a variety of nice issues collectively. He was actually understanding and totally respectful of my selections. We each held on as a result of I do really feel loyal to him and he instructed me he felt very loyal to me as properly. It simply acquired to the purpose the place it was like, I don’t suppose that is working.

4 years in the past, Bowerman was unquestionably the #1 girls’s group within the US, among the finest teams on the earth. And proper now, there are solely two girls left on the roster so far as I can inform – Karissa Schweizer and Christina Aragon. How does that make you are feeling and what do you suppose this crew goes to be like 4 years from now?

There’s only a unhappiness, to be trustworthy. Loads of this has simply felt actually unhappy. Particularly as a result of I used to be one of many final additions into that authentic group. You take a look at that picture from proper earlier than the 2016 Olympic Video games and it’s six girls on the US Olympic crew all coaching on the identical group, which is simply wonderful. It’s unparalleled. I acquired to see the entire new folks coming in and all of the totally different abilities that have been introduced in and so many various skillsets. To see it change has been exhausting and it’s actually exhausting to pinpoint what precisely has occurred. 

However I don’t suppose it’s the tip by any means. I simply suppose that it’s going to be one thing totally different and a part of that’s simply going to be getting extra athletes in that don’t know what the earlier state of affairs or setup was. I believe for myself and possibly for others too, that was the toughest half – accepting that the setup at Bowerman will not be what it was after we went there. A change was taking place, and we would have liked to resolve what change made probably the most sense for us. For me, I stored holding onto this concept that it was going to return to the way it was. And it simply wasn’t. It’s simply totally different now. As soon as I spotted that and accepted that, it gave me some readability on what to do. 

Anything you wished to say about your time with Bowerman?

I assume I simply wish to be sure the message that it actually was a really particular seven years. It wasn’t a nasty ending. Jerry and I are on actually good phrases and had some actually good conversations ultimately. I believe we each started to appreciate that the place his objectives are at and his teaching, it simply didn’t line up with what I used to be searching for anymore or what I felt labored for me.

Working with the Craggs and Pascal

Why go to North Carolina? Why go along with Amy and Alistair?

I ought to say first off, my dwelling base goes to be Park Metropolis. And that was an enormous a part of it too. I got here to the conclusion that I actually wished my dwelling base to be at altitude. Once you checked out my finest years, significantly the 2021 Olympic yr, I spent seven months at altitude that yr. We stored coming again to the concept of why are we making dwelling someplace I may be for 3 months? In conversations with Alistair, he was very open to the concept of probably at instances me being distant. I additionally watched he success he had with Sara Vaughn and Rose Harvey teaching them remotely. I used to be like, okay, clearly he’s good at doing this.

And I don’t suppose lots of people understand Alistair really is aware of me very well as an athlete already as a result of he was actually concerned with issues at Bowerman for my first three or 4 years. He actually noticed me develop into the worldwide athlete I’m, firsthand. So it wasn’t like I used to be leaping into one thing and making an attempt to construct an entire new relationship.

After which Amy was one in all my teammates. She is aware of me very properly as an individual and a variety of issues I achieved, particularly in these early years, are a results of issues I discovered from her. Earlier than I set the American file in Monaco in 2018, I used to be residing along with her in Mammoth. And Mammoth is likely one of the hardest locations I’ve ever educated and I got here out of that camp in a extremely good place as a result of I used to be observing the best way Amy was recovering and simply totally different selections she was making for operating. I had a extremely nice summer season. With the ability to have that relationship already there was big.

Pascal Dobert’s involvement with the Puma crew is clearly an enormous factor for me. It grew to become actually obvious that I actually, actually wanted him concerned with issues. I wished to have a steeple coach. The steeple exercises will not be simply 3k exercises as a result of a steeplechase is not only a 3k. I wished to have that once more, particularly as a result of I basically have now taken a yr and a half off from the occasion. I’m beginning with the fundamentals once more, I’m studying be a steeplechaser once more, studying belief my foot. So I wished to have any person concerned {that a}) already is aware of me very properly and b) is aware of the occasion very, very properly.

And Alistair’s large factor in all of the conversations that I’ve had with him was that he actually needs me to have a hand on the steering wheel this time. And that has been actually thrilling and one thing I really feel actually prepared for. He calls me earlier than most exercises to be like, hey, that is what I’m considering, what do you concentrate on this? I’m concerned in a variety of the conversations and a variety of the planning of what I’m doing and it’s enjoyable. I’m having fun with that a part of it. It’s one thing that, now that I’m nearly 31 years previous, I’m going into my eighth yr operating professionally, it’s time for that and there’s pleasure round that.

Does that imply you and Griffin are each going to be based mostly in Park Metropolis? Or will he spend extra time in North Carolina as a result of he’s serving to coach this group now? How is that going to work?

He’ll most likely be forwards and backwards greater than I’m. He’s coming right here to Albuquerque to be the on-the-ground individual. If there are issues that have to be accomplished for the athletes, he’s the one which’s right here. After which if there are athletes in different elements of the yr at altitude camp and Alistair’s there and he wants somebody to assist Amy out in North Carolina, Griffin will go to North Carolina. I ought to say, I did spend the autumn in North Carolina. My plan is to do sea-level camps there. So I’ll most likely be there for stints twoish instances a yr.

You’re nonetheless a Nike athlete however that’s a Puma group – Alistair and Amy are contracted by Puma. Was it difficult to work out that association for them to teach you?

I simply was concerned with making the telephone name to Nike that I used to be going to be leaving Bowerman. And I’ve been actually lucky, I’ve a extremely good relationship with Paul [Moser in Nike sports marketing]. I had been fairly trustworthy with him all yr lengthy, so I don’t suppose he was caught off-guard. They have been okay with it.

After which I actually must thank [my agent] Tom [Ratcliffe] for being the one which dealt with every part else. He actually was searching for my finest curiosity, dealt with all these conversations. And he actually was the one which began to convey up the concept of this as a result of I didn’t even know there could be potential due to that state of affairs you introduced up. It actually hasn’t been an issue.

2023 was the primary time you missed a crew since 2015 and the primary time you didn’t run the USA ultimate since 2013. You had such a long term of constant success. What was it like watching USAs, watching Worlds from afar?

To be trustworthy, I didn’t even watch. That was extremely heartbreaking. However I couldn’t run. I by no means actually talked about totally what went down. Proper after that prelim [at USAs], I went to chill down and one thing was actually mistaken. I completed the cooldown, being cussed. I don’t know why. I discovered Colleen [Little], our PT (bodily therapist) and he or she might inform one thing was mistaken. She began to check it and we really thought I fractured my fibula – I used to be assuming it was from the autumn [in the prelim], I don’t actually know. She acquired on the telephone with my surgeon and he had me in his workplace the following morning and couldn’t fairly work out what was occurring. An avulsion fracture confirmed up however then they discovered it was previous. So I attempted to run on the AlterG that afternoon to check it and I made it three steps at 10-minute tempo, 60% body weight. There was no making an attempt to robust it out. I wasn’t going to have the ability to run. I might barely stroll and was put in a boot. It was a really low time.

What was the difficulty?

I did find yourself getting an MRI and it was really a separate harm from what I had surgical procedure for. I tore two ligaments in my ankle after which I had a bone bruise in my fibula, from the autumn, I believe. I ended up having to take two weeks off of operating after which a month off of exercises. It wasn’t nice. Wanting again, I undoubtedly rushed again from the [ankle] surgical procedure [in December 2022]. I don’t remorse making an attempt. I had the World Championship normal, so I felt like I wanted to present it a go. However I used to be not most likely able to run a steeplechase. It’s one factor to come back again to operating and it’s one other factor to be able to run a steeple. There’s a lot impression on the toes and ankles in that occasion. Issues are so totally different this time round. We’ve got hit the ankle rehab, return to leaping fully in another way.

I additionally discovered quite a bit although, how shortly the game strikes on. There’s at all times somebody new. It’s thrilling. It’s the way it must be, that’s the way it retains rising. It taught me that this time round, I’m doing it for me and to see what I can do. I’m not moving into with the stress of making an attempt to show one thing to folks. There have been undoubtedly some good classes discovered from all of it, however not a simple time. Particularly as a result of, such as you mentioned, for thus a few years it was at all times Emma [Coburn] and I. It was nearly like everybody felt it was assured that her and I have been going to be on the crew.

I do know you mentioned you have been coping with lengthy COVID a yr in the past and in addition low iron. How does the ankle really feel and the way does your physique really feel healthwise proper now?

The perfect it has since 2021. I’m in a very totally different place than I used to be a yr in the past or perhaps a yr and a half in the past. Coming off the Olympics I used to be completely rolling, I used to be considering I used to be going to be in unbelievable place to medal once more. And it was one factor after one other. And that’s life. I don’t suppose that I’m distinctive in having to cope with quite a bit in that method. Sadly, extra frequent than not, you get into harm cycles the place it’s simply form of one factor after one other. 

This fall, we didn’t power something and Alistair centered on writing exercises that my physique was prepared for. It was like, okay, the place are we at this week? Issues simply began to come back collectively. After which impulsively I’m doing exercises that I haven’t been in a position to contact since 2021. So it’s been, actually, actually thrilling. Working has been feeling actually good and my confidence is coming again. I’m excited.

You talked about the game can transfer shortly with out you. Your pb, 8:57, makes you the eighth-fastest girl in historical past, however a variety of the ladies within the prime 10 are nonetheless competing. Final yr’s Diamond League ultimate, we noticed Winfred Yavi run 8:50 and Beatrice Chepkoech run 8:51. What sort of time do you suppose it’s going to take to get on the rostrum in Paris, and do you suppose that’s one thing you’re nonetheless able to doing?

I undoubtedly nonetheless suppose I’m nonetheless able to getting again into being the sub-9:00 runner that I’m. If you’re in sub-9:00 form of form, you’re within the combine. That would be the focus. I do know on paper, my PR is 8:57 and that was run in a extremely chaotic method so I believe I’ve the power to run even sooner if [there is a] stars aligning-type second. I’ve full expectation that that’s the place I’m going to have to be.

I’m taking it one step at a time. That is the primary season that I don’t have the usual coming in, in order that’s a primary step. We’re not overlooking something. But when issues maintain going as they’re and I maintain constructing the boldness, I totally imagine I can get again there and I believe that’s what it will take. I don’t suppose you’re going to see the 9:00s essentially being on the rostrum once more. As a result of the game is rising in a extremely thrilling method and the ladies’s steeplechase is continuous to develop too. It’s enjoyable to be part of that.

What objectives remaining do you’ve within the sport?

That’s a great query. I’ve been actually fortunate to perform a variety of what I’ve wished to do. However I don’t suppose I’m accomplished. I’ve at all times mentioned I wish to make 4 Olympic groups, end an Olympics in the USA [in 2028 in Los Angeles]. In no way do I believe this subsequent yr is the tip for me. I’ve but to win a US championship, in order that’s fairly excessive on the checklist of objectives. Simply to maintain difficult myself. We’ll see. 

Proper now, the largest objective is about trusting myself as an athlete and as a steeplechaser once more, as a result of I believe I acquired actually far-off from that. However I believe we’re on a great trajectory for that.

This interview has been condensed for size and readability.

Speak about Frerichs’ recent begin on our world-famous fan discussion board / messageboard. *MB: Courtney Frerichs Uncensored: Frerichs tells Letsrun why she’s left the Bowerman Monitor Membership.